tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9215652504344172254.post1074956144882364952..comments2024-01-15T09:53:40.089-05:00Comments on Black Aces: Ottawa 5 Sabres 3 - Sens Keep Rolling Despite DistractionsJeremy Milkshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09719907099819957578noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9215652504344172254.post-55936274986643507392009-11-23T13:05:32.949-05:002009-11-23T13:05:32.949-05:00Sacul,
Congrats! You're starting to see the l...Sacul,<br /><br />Congrats! You're starting to see the light.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9215652504344172254.post-86894725134971903142009-11-23T00:54:38.318-05:002009-11-23T00:54:38.318-05:00Anon who refuses to get a free handle:
I already s...Anon who refuses to get a free handle:<br />I already said...I bow to your superior wisdom. I have now started a petition to fire Bryan Murray and hire Mike Milbury as his replacement. Clarke Gilles has already signed it with his HHOF pen.Saculhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08233899405487603161noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9215652504344172254.post-7032636233343058112009-11-23T00:39:55.614-05:002009-11-23T00:39:55.614-05:00Sacul,
Glen Sather is in the Hockey Hall of Fame....Sacul,<br /><br />Glen Sather is in the Hockey Hall of Fame. Evidently, the NHL minds you are talking about are not on the selection committee.<br /><br />As for "falling ass backwards into a great situation", it happens to many people. Some take advantage of it, others screw it up.<br /><br />Bryan Murray fell ass backwards into a great situation and screwed it up.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9215652504344172254.post-59802914547288863832009-11-22T21:45:36.267-05:002009-11-22T21:45:36.267-05:00Anon 9:11 (How appropriate):
You sure drank enoug...Anon 9:11 (How appropriate):<br /><br />You sure drank enough Muckler (and Sather!) Kool Aid to last a lifetime.<br />You're mixing up crappy coaches and managers with great ones from various sports in your comment. Some guys fall ass backwards into great situations and some add the required elements for championships. <br />To put Muckler and Sather in the company of some of those legends when they are univerally ridiculed by the best minds of the NHL is silly.<br />To be fair to Mucks, he did OK in his pre-Sens time (some good work to go with his luck in Edmonton, some decent stuff in Buffalo) but his best before date was long passed before he showed up in Ottawa. And Sather...well...I mean, just the fact you threw him in there makes it tough to take you seriously.<br />Brian Burke and Ken Holland each won the cup...they must be GMs of equal talent, then! <br />Darcy Regier must be a terrible GM (even though he's well regarded around the league), he hasn't won the Cup. Having a cheap ass owner has nothing to do with it...he obviously sucks, right?<br /><br />OK...got it. Thanks for clearing it all up. I can sleep better now for having shared in your wisdom.Saculhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08233899405487603161noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9215652504344172254.post-65143758980100438442009-11-22T21:11:21.080-05:002009-11-22T21:11:21.080-05:00Sacul,
The Sens are not as good today, as they we...Sacul,<br /><br />The Sens are not as good today, as they were in 2006-07.<br /><br />We won the President's trophy in 2002-03, we reached the Finals in 2006-07. That is the bottom line.<br /><br />A GM has many responsibilities. Drafting, signing players, trades, but also getting the team to perform. Sometimes that means having the patience not to tinker.<br /><br />Muckler was handed a good team, no doubt. But, he didn't mess it up.<br /><br />I don't care what sport you look at, all the legendary coaches and GM's won championships because they had the wisdom to know they had good players. <br /><br />Phil Jackson, Scotty Bowman, Joe Torre, Pat Riley, Glen Sather/John Muckler. All these guys won championships on the back of great players. Their genius is that when they have good players, they are smart enough to know when to get out of the way.<br /><br />Bryan Murray was handed a great young team (fifth youngest in the NHL) who just went to the Finals. He ripped it apart.<br /><br />Lastly, Muckler did not lose his job because he performed poorly. He lost his job because Mlakar and Muckler lost a power struggle against Murray and Melnyk. Melnyk wanted to have his people in charge.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9215652504344172254.post-56582489489885673652009-11-22T19:59:36.624-05:002009-11-22T19:59:36.624-05:00Anon 3:13: You got it right and said a lot of what...Anon 3:13: You got it right and said a lot of what I wanted to say. Thanks!<br /><br />Anon 1:08 and 3:57 (must be the same guy)...as a Muckler supporter, you truly are beyond redemption. Aside from all the lousy work he did as Sens GM, there's the fact he was ridiculed by other league executives and often couldn't remember details of conversations he had the previous day. He was still trying to ride the coat tails of his Oiler years but was way overdue for retirement. There are many things you could say about him which would require actual quotes to prove before being posted in a public forum, but those who followed the team know the facts. (Don't forget he wanted to bring Hasek back after he stiffed the team and was only stopped when the entire organization lined up against him.) There is a reason he was fired after his team went to the finals and no other team would take him on. (His buddy Gretzky getting him a short lived advisor role in Phoenix doesn't count.)<br />Muckler walked into a Sens team LOADED with talent from years of good draft picks and development. They were a soft but highly skilled team. Mucks had no long term plan but did have a stong front office around him, including Peter Chiarelli. Muckler was well known for rejecting the advice of others and going his own way. That explains the terrible drafting and the absolute refusal to get the type of players the team needed and Murray was begging for. You can see on teams with recent success like Anaheim, Pittsburgh and Detroit that skilled players were combined with gritty "heart and soul" guys. When Anaheim started pounding the crap out of the Sens soft D and the refs didn't step in when they just pounded everyone...you could hear the "I told you so" calls all around Ottawa. Whether it was Gary Roberts, a decent defenseman or anyone else...it was obvious to everyone from Melnyk on down that Muckler was just plain out of it and not getting the team what it needed. Maybe if he had done any decent drafting he would have had better prospects to offer, or wouldn't have been so afraid to toss in some future picks. He left the cupboard so bare, anyways...<br /><br />If Murray was fired tomorrow, he'd have 5 job offers before next season. Muckler couldn't even sell himself to the hapless Peddie at MLSE.<br /><br />While we're at it: It's so easy to get an ID for these blogs. A GMail will do. Why does everyone feel the need to do these Anon posts and complicate things?Saculhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08233899405487603161noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9215652504344172254.post-23105496155966372472009-11-22T15:57:27.641-05:002009-11-22T15:57:27.641-05:00FLA only got two full seasons with Bure and had to...FLA only got two full seasons with Bure and had to give up their first overall pick in 1994, Jovonovski, to get him.<br /><br />Bure scored a lot, but they got nowhere with him. Murray even gave him a 5 year $47.5M deal. <br /><br />As for Luongo and Jokinen, they were an outstanding acquisition. Maybe one of the most one sided trades in NHL history. But, the bottom line is that team went nowhere with them.<br /><br />At the end of the day, a GM is responsible for the whole team. Murray could not build a winner even with these two center pieces.<br /><br />You mentioned FLA in the Finals in 1996. By 1998, they were in the bottom of the league with the first overall pick. That's a team that cannot sustain success. A one hit wonder. They were LUCKY!<br /><br />In Anaheim, Murray did not even make the playoffs his last year there. Burke came in and added Niedermayer, Pronger, Selanne, Beauchemin. He also dumped the $8M a year mistake in Federov that Murray signed.<br /><br />In other words, Burke changed the top three D and added the leading goal scorer.<br /><br />Look at Anaheim this year without Pronger. No longer world beaters. Look at Anaheim at the beginning of 2007-08 without Niedermayer and Selanne. Not very good. Bottom line, Anaheim won the Cup because Burke added three Hall of Famers.<br /><br />You add those three to any team in the league today, and they become Cup contenders.<br /><br />As for Paddock as a coach, he got fired with a .609 winning percentage while we were second in the conference. There was an article in the Citizen last week celebrating Clouston's success because he had a .600 winning percentage.<br /><br />Expectations have clearly fallen.<br /><br />That being said, I do like Clouston. But, there is no sense taking a good man like John Paddock down when his record speaks for itself.<br /><br />Murray's been in hockey for thirty years. There's only thirty teams. There was only 21 teams in the eighties. You'd think that he would have at least accidentally won something by now. Nada. Nothing.<br /><br />No Cups. No Team Canada. No Olympics. Nothing.<br /><br />Muckler took us to the Finals. HIs record speaks for itself.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9215652504344172254.post-20944047288126734562009-11-22T15:13:23.040-05:002009-11-22T15:13:23.040-05:00Murray gave out most of the NTCs? Some =/= most.
...Murray gave out most of the NTCs? Some =/= most. <br /><br />Now, I'm not sure how BM's Florida moves back in '97 are relevant, but I'll bite. The wider you spin things, the more vulnerable you become.<br /><br />Obviously in hindsight, Koz for Vinny was a loser trade. That's the nature of making trades that involve draft picks. But keep in mind Murray took Florida to the Finals the previous year, so he was working on a tight timeline. Regardless, Tampa did well and ultimately won the Cup with Vinny and there's no denying that's what it's all about. But what of attendance? The oh-so-charismatic superstar isn't much of a fan magnet, even when Stamkos and St. Louis are added to the mix: the Lightning only draw 12 - 16 K these days.<br /><br />Now, as long as we're getting nostalgic, how about BM's acquisition of Pavel Bure from the 'nucks? What about snagging Luongo and Jokinnen from the Isles for garbage? Hardly Mike Milbury-like moves. Oh yeah, the final irony... those Ducks that won the cup in '07. Who built them? If you say Brian Burke, you'll be fully exposed as a Leaf Lover.<br /><br />Back to Muckler... how about not re-signing Chara, bringing in Tyler Arnason, Peter Bondra, Gerber, the 2002 draft, the 2003 draft, 2004 (well, Mes did some good), 2005 (Brian Lee might make it full-time someday soon), 2006 (Nick Foligno notwithstanding).<br /><br />Spezza, Volchenkov, Havlat, Fisher, Hossa, Phillips, Vermette, Tim Gleason... these guys were all drafted in the years before Muckler. That's one ugly comparison. It'll take a few more years of decent drafts to rebuild depth throughout the franchise. <br /><br />I will certainly concede that BM has hired some poor coaches. Paddock just didn't pan out, though there was some degree of logic to hiring him; Hartsburg was a disaster, plain and simple. If CC loses the team this year, then as a matter of things taking their natural course, TM should probably be fired.<br /><br />Attendance? That's why teams have marketing departments. I live far from Ottawa these days though, so aside from the blogs and Center Ice, I can't comment on what the organization needs to do to put butts in the seats. Based on my years in Ottawa though, creative promotions are typically beyond the scope of most businesses there, but Eugene is a smart man.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9215652504344172254.post-15782716648956118822009-11-22T13:08:21.167-05:002009-11-22T13:08:21.167-05:00anon @ 3:27am and Sacul,
There's no saving yo...anon @ 3:27am and Sacul,<br /><br />There's no saving you. You've already drank the Kool-Aid.<br /><br />Sacul, since when has Murray turned us into consistent contenders? We WERE consistent contenders since 1997. We stopped under him.<br /><br />3:27am, Murray gave out most of the NTC's. He does not have a great record when it comes to trades. He has had some great ones in his career. But, he has also had some of the biggest gaffs in NHL history.<br /><br />As GM in Florida, in 1997, he traded away his first round pick for Viktor Kozlov. Later that year, that first round pick was used by Tampa to select Vinny Lecavalier first overall. That's right, Vinny was selected with Murray's pick.<br /><br />Imagine having a charismatic superstar like Vinny in FLA. It is exactly what the franchise needed, not only on the ice, but off it as well. That is a Milbury-esque gaff.<br /><br />At least the Leafs will have Kessel if Boston drafts Taylor Hall. FLA got Viktor Kozlov.<br /><br />In any case, it doesn't matter what either you or I say. The fans have spoken. They're not filling the building.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9215652504344172254.post-37634602094213342582009-11-22T10:38:57.406-05:002009-11-22T10:38:57.406-05:00Blame the GM? Anon 11:40, you've got to be ki...Blame the GM? Anon 11:40, you've got to be kidding?? Under Murray, the Sens are FINALLY making some headway towards becoming a consistent contender. The entertainment value of the team is very high. Around the league, he is widely regarded as a skilled trader and drafter. Muckler left a bare cupboard with few gritty players when he was turfed. Murray was begging for any kind of muscle when he was coach...and Muckler just wouldn't pull the trigger.<br />As for the attendance issues...all the reasons just add up. NHL games are too expensive and it's pretty much a myth that Ottawa hockey fans are all public servants with fat wallets. The federal public service is by far the largest area employer, though...and ticket purchases for clients are banned. No other city faces that challenge. Corporate sales drive attendance.<br />Ottawa needs the casual fan to show up for sell outs. How many times have you been to a game and heard so many people with comments like "I like that Vermette guy...he's cute. Is he still with us?" or "Alfie is so good, I'd play him on defense when we get the lead." These are the people needed in Ottawa to sell out games. Unfortunately, they don't read many hockey blogs or even the sports section of the local papers. They catch a few snippets of national media here and there and know what their friends at work have been saying. The national media has been brutally biased against the Sens and very ill informed. Right after the Heatley trade, it was clear that out of the 3 Eastern Canadian NHL teams, only one did a good job of adressing it's needs in the off-season. With one hand tied behind his back, Murray made some shrewd moves and left his roster in good shape, with only the Top 4 D being scary. Toronto went nutty with truculence and Gainey invested a ton in small scoring forwards, ignoring other neeeds.<br />Before the season, I along with many other people that payed attention said the Sens are a 5-6-7 team in the conference this year and the Habs and Leafs won't make the playoffs. The pundits who only pay a small amount of attention to Ottawa made their picks and all they could talk about was Heatley. Most picked Toronto and Montreal ahead of Ottawa. Ouch.Saculhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08233899405487603161noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9215652504344172254.post-23230669049935413132009-11-22T03:27:21.073-05:002009-11-22T03:27:21.073-05:00Meh. I don't agree too much with the above ran...Meh. I don't agree too much with the above rant. Ottawa fans tend to be frontrunners, plain and simple. Never been a particularly strong sports town. Rough Riders, Ottawa Civics, Nationals... you name it, fans avoided it.<br /><br />Blaming TM... I couldn't agree less. The product on the ice certainly suffered tremendously due to the horrific drafting of Muckler, the propensity to seemingly toss every signee a NTC, and an inability to obtain value for key players (Havlat et al.). How can there not be some downtime after years of destructive management like that? It's always easy to look back three or five years ago and smile at what a great team we had, but it came with a very real price.<br /><br />And Joe Corvo? You've got to be kidding. He always shows up for team skill contests, but come gametime he plays like Paul Coffey's shadow.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9215652504344172254.post-58734361693480139062009-11-21T23:40:28.036-05:002009-11-21T23:40:28.036-05:00I'm with ya on the NYR jersey. I'm about r...I'm with ya on the NYR jersey. I'm about ready to pull the trigger on purchasing one as well. Not a fan (although I still cheer for Redden), just like the jersey.<br /><br />I'm not buying all the excuses on the drop in attendance. Price points, location of arena, too many home games, poor economy ... they're just excuses.<br /><br />I'll give you that last year's negative press coverage hasn't helped, but I don't think that's the main reason.<br /><br />All these excuses are reflective of a greater change in the organization. A change in culture. A culture of excuses. Excuses when we lose. Excuses when we make bad trades. Excuses when we don't sellout.<br /><br />When you buy a product from a store and it doesn't work, you return it. When you return it, you don't want to hear an excuse from the retailer, you want them to give you a product that works.<br /><br />What happened to the Sens' no excuses winning attitude? That was pre-Murray. Now, it's gone. There's a new culture.<br /><br />It's funny how the media has all sorts of theories as to why the fans are not showing up. Why do they refuse to explore the possibility that fans are pissed that the GM screwed up the high-octane entertaining team that they had. That's the reason!<br /><br />Emery's among the league leaders in goaltending. Heatley's leading in goals. Corvo is top five in ice-time (for only $2.6M). Vermette is second only to Rick Nash in ice-time on CBJ, among forwards, and is having a career year.<br /><br />Beyond that, the games are not as much fun to watch as they were a few years ago. It's a different vibe. Not as classy. Not as joyful. Not as spirited. No swagger.<br /><br />Change the GM if you want real change.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com