tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9215652504344172254.post6281942306858684887..comments2024-01-15T09:53:40.089-05:00Comments on Black Aces: Fan vs Athlete: The Lessons of Patrick Roy and Jason SpezzaJeremy Milkshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09719907099819957578noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9215652504344172254.post-79812732678134272382010-08-19T16:20:30.549-04:002010-08-19T16:20:30.549-04:00If anyone is looking for a substitute for their wi...If anyone is looking for a substitute for their winter supply of kindling wood, NHL.com has Leaf jerseys on sale.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9215652504344172254.post-77496723270080393772010-08-18T13:13:24.072-04:002010-08-18T13:13:24.072-04:00I would agree with Anonymous (the first one, not m...I would agree with Anonymous (the first one, not me).<br /><br />And I like the article, but...<br /><br /><br />...you don't really think Spezza leaving town this off-season was a "very real possibility" do you? In retrospect, it seems almost ridiculous that I briefly saw that headline and worried about it for more than 5 seconds. I just can't see him going anywhere anytime soon. I think it was just totally blown out of perspective by a few eager sports writers...<br /><br />Anyways, nice post!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9215652504344172254.post-19828580834666114072010-08-16T15:52:24.370-04:002010-08-16T15:52:24.370-04:00Pierre,
I disagree with your post except for the ...Pierre,<br /><br />I disagree with your post except for the part where you say Murray should be let go.<br /><br />The "point per game" critique is weak at best.<br /><br />Gretzky averaged close to two points a game over his career. People talk about him in that context.<br /><br />Is that misleading? He had a ton of three, four, and five point games. He had several six, seven, and I think even an eight point game.<br /><br />He also had a ton of games, during the 1990's, where he didn't get a point. He was dominant in the 1980's, but there was a sharp drop off in the 1990's.<br /><br />He averaged two points a game over his career. Spezza averages a point a game.<br /><br />We're not talking a 20 game sample size. He's got close to a 500 game sample size. He's accurately described as a point a game guy.<br /><br />As for the comment about the stats being inflated due to the Pizza Line, I don't think inflation is the right word.<br /><br />It's more like that's his potential when you surround him with guys who can finish his passes. To get the most out of your players you need to surround them with other players who complement their strengths.<br /><br />Gretzky had Kurri, Kariya and Selanne had each other, Getzlaf has Perry, Thornton has Heatley, Ovechkin has Backstrom ...<br /><br />The criticism surrounding his giveaways is misinformation. He's no different than most other top offensive talents around the league. Look it up on NHL.com.<br /><br />Tops in giveaways last year ... Tyler Myers (Rookie of the Year.<br /><br />The top four forwards in giveaways ... Joe Thornton, Sidney Crosby, John Tavares, and Alex Ovechkin. Coincidentally, they're all first overall picks.<br /><br />Two other first overall picks makes the top 10 in giveaway ... Roman Hamrlik and Chris Phillips.<br /><br />So, six of the top ten in giveaways last year, were drafted first over drafted first overall.<br /><br />Kovalchuk is at 14th on the list. If he had one more turnover he would have been 11th. He'll make it next year.<br /><br />I guess the conclusion is that if you are a good player, you'll be on the ice a lot, and you'll probably have the puck a lot, and you'll probably give it up a lot.<br /><br />I think a better way to look at things, if your a forward, may be your giveaway to takeaway ratio. Pavel Datsyuk is 11th on the giveaway list. But, he leads the takeaway list by far.<br /><br />If you look at the giveaway to takeaway ratio, Spezza compares favourably to the others. In fact, he's much better than Crosby in that area.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9215652504344172254.post-51530028890705405152010-08-16T14:27:15.994-04:002010-08-16T14:27:15.994-04:00Sorry for the double post here, but fans pay hundr...Sorry for the double post here, but fans pay hundreds of bucks for their tickets. If they want to piss on the players, that's their right. Is it immature? Sure it is. Is it justified? Nah. But hockey players make multiple millions a year, they need to have a thick skin if they're going to be winners.Karahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16219020795400294187noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9215652504344172254.post-60701570987704857072010-08-16T14:23:30.174-04:002010-08-16T14:23:30.174-04:00Ange, those point a game stats are very, very, ver...Ange, those point a game stats are very, very, very misleading.<br /><br />If you look more closely, you'll see the following:<br /><br />Spezza had only one goal through his first 20 or so games and only 16 or so points in that period. Toward the end of the year, he piled on many multi-point games (he did the same in the playoffs) to make himself look better.<br /><br />Want more examples? In the playoffs, Spezza had 0 points in game 1 but then had a multi-point game in the blowout loss. In 2005-2006 playoffs, he had I think one even strength point, but in 2007 he had 23 playoff points. In 2008 I think he had all of one point in the playoffs...but his playoff ppg is 46 in 46 games...and his regular season ppg is 475 in 464.<br /><br />Of course, those regular season numbers are quite inflated by the Pizza line days, no? Remember when we used to roll the leafs 8-0 and Heatley got 4 goals and so on?<br /><br />That's the thing with Spezza, he's an enigma. You know he'll produce points but...will he do it game in game out? The answer to that is probably not. On top of that, he's not the best in his own end.<br /><br />I see Spezza this year as playing 75 games and getting 70-78 points. <br /><br />As for your point about softer hands for big defensemen...Scott Stevens was most definitely a stay at home guy and he developped the hands. Chara was a 3rd pairing D with the Islanders and rounded himself into an excellent all-around D. <br /><br />Karlsson needs to become bigger and steadiers in his own end. Right now Ken Warren said it best...the Senators will score more goals but they'll likely be allowing a fair bit more too. People say you can learn "D" but Spezza's beein in the NHL almost 10 years and he's still a slow learner. I'd hate to have to see Karlsson struggle in his own end for 10-15 years even if he does contribute offensively. Phil Housley was fun to watch but he never did anything of note. Coffey did but that was a wacked out hockey era.<br /><br /><br />When you look at Cup winning Ds of late, Chicago had Seabrook and co. who were steady defensively and moved the puck. Pitts had guys like Orpik, Gonchar etc, nice mix of steady and fancy. We're probably a bit too far on the puck-moving side for my taste, but I'm not the GM.<br /><br />One thing is for sure, if the Senators don't get out of the first round this year, Murray should be let go and a new vision and GM need to come in here. If we're not true Cup contenders then let's start the youth movement.Karahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16219020795400294187noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9215652504344172254.post-31913184265683776232010-08-15T22:53:07.030-04:002010-08-15T22:53:07.030-04:00The fact of the matter is Spezza has been averagin...The fact of the matter is Spezza has been averaging a point a game since the lock out, no other player other than Alfie and Heatley has been doing this for Ottawa. You move that kind of point production and you'll have some REAL unhappy fans. Sure you move his salary and you may be able to pick up some talent and make up those points. Just like the Heater deal.? Maybe Ottawa fans do kick the cat when they get home from work. Should they bring that to the rink? I don't think so.<br />As far as Karlsson is concerned... this kind of player is the future. Smart, quick, heads up hockey sense. You can coach kids like this to be more responsible in their own end and be NHL caliber. Big stay at home, shot blocking defencemen can't be taught to have softer hands.Angehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11636996112375006786noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9215652504344172254.post-82336376821114311392010-08-13T09:08:40.772-04:002010-08-13T09:08:40.772-04:00"Perhaps down in Ottawa, the fans have pulled..."Perhaps down in Ottawa, the fans have pulled themselves back from the brink of running their best offensive player out of town (...)"<br /><br />Don't bet on it.<br /><br />Until Spezza produces a Stanley Cup or a Selke trophy or at least greatly rounds his two-way game, until he stops giggling in post-games...he will be shat on, if you'll forgive the language.<br /><br />The people in this town want a winner. They look at Spezza's resume and see no championships and become quizzical. Can a guy that has never won make a team win? Especially with ingrained bad habits and the big-time salary?<br /><br />Make no mistake Mr. Milks, this town will continue to piss on Spezza for the foreseeable future. He may get a reprieve early on if he produces points, but at the first sign of a letdown or first turnover that ends up in our net, the knives will come out.<br /><br />And if Spezza leaves?<br /><br />Come on down Erik Karlsson, you're the next contenstant on "The Whipping Boy!"<br /><br />(Post-game show excerpt, Nostradamus like)<br /><br />(Irate fan calls in after a 5-3 win)<br /><br />"Yeah, that Karlsson kid. He's really soft in his own end. Doesn't seem he plays defense."<br /><br />(Stunned Scott MacArthur)<br /><br />'But sir, he was the catalyst for the power play goals that put us ahead of the Hurricanes. He is very much the reason we won this game.'<br /><br />(Idiot fan)<br /><br />"Winning is nice but you need to take care of your own end. One of these days that fancy stuff is going to lose us a hockey game. Look what happened with Jason Spezza last year, these guys hate playing defense."<br /><br />*CLICK*<br /><br />I don't even think it's frustrations being projected Jeremy.<br /><br />It's just Ottawa, we're cynical and we turn on our own and eat our young in this town. Heck, every Saturday I get together with some friends and we discuss who'll be the next whipping boy. One of them works at SBP and he's sure it's Spezza:<br /><br />"Arrogant guy", he says. "Doesn't say hi to the workers. Alfredsson and Neil all say hi."<br /><br />It's not frustration, it's not transference, it's none of that stuff. Spezza just isn't liked here. And Karlsson won't be liked either, mark my words. It's the product of having these guys pushed down our throats by the media as being stars in a city that is very much uncomfortable with stardom (Where are you Alanis Morrissette, Tom Green, Paul Anka, Rich Little, etc...) and extremely cynical and jaded because of that big set of buildings on Wellington.<br /><br />Spezza and Karlsson will either endure and blossom despite the idiots and haters or they'll skip out of town. I'd wager that a portion of the discontents just want to see how far they can push Jason.<br /><br />I'll leave with an anecdote. I was at that game where he got booed. I asked one of the guys that booed.<br /><br />"Why are you booing Jason? He's a really skilled guy."<br /><br />'Bonehead play, he needs more awareness, he's always like this. Wimp too.'<br /><br />"But mistakes happen..."<br /><br />'Don't care, complaining is fun. It's fun piling on a guy to see what happens. Guy's making 7 million so who gives a shit about his feelings.'<br /><br />No kidding here...Karahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16219020795400294187noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9215652504344172254.post-69333953068495363472010-08-13T00:33:31.103-04:002010-08-13T00:33:31.103-04:00Great post. Love it when you mix hockey with an of...Great post. Love it when you mix hockey with an off the board topic. Keep up the good work.<br /><br />I agree with you. I love the Dryden and Roy comments. I agree completely. I think that fans often project their own life dramas and frustrations on players.<br /><br />If their boss is tough and unforgiving, they want the coach to be tough and unforgiving with the players. If they hate their job or their life, they don't want the players smiling too much when they're working either.<br /><br />The best players are the easiest targets. The curmudgeons resent the players' success. That's my personal opinion.<br /><br />The thing is, most high performance athletes, and over achievers in general, are very diligent and conscientious. Often they'll take criticism personally, and be affected by it. The problem is that there is nothing constructive about curmudgeon criticism, it's just hate.<br /><br />Add to that, that a lot of these players are in their twenties. Often, they don't have the life experience to deal effectively with the curmudgeons. I don't think that many of them know the difference between constructive criticism and curmudgeon hate.<br /><br />Look at Mike Keenan in the 90's. It seemed that he consistently ran good happy players off his teams for no real reason. Curtis Joseph, Brendan Shanahan, and Trevor Linden were all victims. He didn't just trade them, he ripped them apart first.<br /><br />I loved Cujo's quote at the time. <br /><br />"You just couldn't please him." <br /><br />I got the strong sense that Cujo understood. Keenan was a curmudgeon and there was nothing that he could do. It wasn't his on-ice performance that was the problem.<br /><br />Your comment about Alfie is so true. There's been an Alfie love-in the last few years, but as recent as 2006-07, some people were trying to run him out of town. Even Don Cherry got into the mix and suggested that a change of scenery would be good for Alfie.<br /><br />Finally, I gotta address one thing that gets on my nerves. I hate that common criticism that goes:<br /><br />"So and so player is making $7M a year, they should shut up and take the criticism, because I would do the job for league minimum."<br /><br />Bullshit ... plain and simple.<br /><br />You don't have to take my word for it either (I saw some dude on TVO explain it pretty good). There's actually academic research in this area. If you give someone consistent negative feedback, you destroy an individual's intrinsic motivation to perform their job a a high level. This is especially the case, if the person is already self-motivated and IS trying their best.<br /><br />Think about it. You go to work, you're trying your best, and the feedback you get is that you suck. Initially you may be motivated to prove them wrong, but if you keep giving your best, and keep getting negative feedback, at some point, you lose some motivation.<br /><br />My point is that, ya sure anyone would do the job for league minimum and take the criticism. But, the consistent negative feedback will eventually get to anyone, and as a human being, you won't be giving a peak performance. You'd just be showing up to collect the paycheque.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com